Spitfire Audio’s BBC Symphony Orchestra library is available in three editions, Discover (£49 or free), Core (£399) and Pro (£899).
We have created some Dorico project templates and playback templates for this library so that you can use it more easily in your projects in Dorico Pro, Elements or SE. You will need Dorico 3.5 or later.
Downloads
- BBCSO Discover Template (zip, updated 18th February 2021)
- BBCSO Core Template (zip, updated 19th May 2021)
- BBCSO Pro Template (zip, updated 19th May 2021)
Each zip file contains a project template, playback template and information file.
Changes
- May 2021: making playback of repeated notes in legato passages smoother using tweaks to the expression maps. Details in the Information PDF in the zip file.
- Feb 2021: adding the changes in BBCSO v1.2 update (see SpitfireAudio changelog for details)
For information on how to install and use these templates, please watch this video:
For in-depth information about how they were constructed and how you can integrate other libraries with expression maps, and percussion maps to make your own custom playback templates please watch the Discover Dorico session on Expression maps and Playback templates for Spitfire BBCSO Discover.
Thank you so much for that. Keep up your good work.Dorico is really good.
I have one request can you please add snare and cymbal to the set up.
Thanks
All of those instruments are already added to the percussion player in Setup mode. If you expand the player or use Galley view you’ll see the other instruments and you can drag/reassign/add more as required.
Timpani has to be an octave lower
Hi Dimitris
The Dorico template and playback template has been updated with the correct Timpani octave.
Hi John
You are making great things!
Wondering if there is a playback template for Spitfire Solo Strings for Dorico 3.5.1?
Cheers
Kai
Composer Fennica Gehrman
Perfect timing! Just bought Dorico SE 3.5 so can now try Discover – looking fwd to Core. Excellent video John, just the right pace and very clear.
Thank you John, I appreciated the work you just published. It is of great help, not only in establishing correct Expression Maps which is not a simple topic to deal with. If I may, I would suggest to upload a complete EM library for BBC Discover so that it could be easily imported in setting up one own’s projects with mixed sound libraries. Thanks again
Hi Gianni
If you use the supplied playback template you can then use it to create your own custom playback template with e.g. different instrumental sections using different libraries.
When is Pro version due out?
@Mark: John is currently working on the Core template, and the Pro version will follow.
Nice so the the ones that paid the most have to wait the longest. While those that got the free version come first
Yes but you’re not paying for the expression map, so you’ll just have to wait until John gets around to it…
Some people.
When I saw that this video was going to touch on loading the template, I thought perhaps you had added the ability to configure templates to be able to be selected from within the Hub like the built-in templates. But it turns out that you’re still just opening it as a file. Does this mean that you still have to be careful not to overwrite the template file with any changes? I currently have a template that I’ve made “read-only” on my computer so that it forces me to save as another name, but would love to see you guys incorporate custom templates somehow into the Hub selection process. Thanks!
Yes we’ll probably add an option to put templates in the hub one day, but in the zip file there is also a playback template, so you can use that with any hub template (or your own projects) and it’ll load the BBCSO sounds for you.
Hi John, great work! Are there other libraries setups like this. I use (and many others) the EW Hollywood Orchestra. Is there one for that too?
There’s a few other expression maps here: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=189346#p1000742. (I’m not sure how detailed they are; I’m using the BBCSO templates, myself.)
Thank you Dorico team for a wonderful effort.
Timpani is playing violin
The a3 are not assigned on the template
Any update on the BBC SO pro template?
How to play a portamento ? I changed the velocity of the notes (under 19) but there is no portamento effect.
Thanks !
How to play a portamento ? I changed the velocity of the notes (under 19) but there is no portamento effect.
Thanks !
it’s not the velocity you should change, it’s the dynamics. Portamento only operates up to 15%, it seems, so under about 17 as a MIDI setting in the CC1 lane. Increase the value in the CC11 lane if it should be louder
Greetings, I have these BBC expression maps working with Vienna Ensemble Pro which hosts the BBC SO Pro instruments. I have a problem that my CC11 automation lanes in Play mode contain (grayed out) note data that seems to override any automation I draw in. The new automation line or pencil data appears OK, but the dynamic CC1 control in the BBC instrument jumps around with each note, appearing to be velocity related with different levels per note. I have tried overwriting them, switching off the secondary CC in the expression maps all with no success. I’m stuck and frustrated. Any suggestions?
Appreciate you help as always. Keep up the great work! Thank you.
@Rob: I suggest you bring your problem to the Dorico forum, and post a small example project that demonstrates the problem, and somebody will be able to assist.
Thanks Daniel!
Hello!
I’m loving my Dorico trial.
I want to buy, but I’m waiting for the BBCSO Pro template.
Any ETA on the Pro template?
Thank you!
Dan
Hi!
I’m wondering when the pro template will be release?
Thank you so much for your job. This is fantastic!
@Theo: John is nearly finished working on it, so it won’t be long.
Great news Dan, I really need this ASAP. Cheers …
Quick question.
Not currently a Dorico user but I am a BBCSO user – do the core and pro edition templates support things like the different note transitions in legato patches? e.g. fingered/bowed legato, portamento etc. that are triggered by velocity?
I’m not aware even of whether expression maps are capable of doing things like triggering velocity from gliss markings etc. but would be really appealing if so.
Hi Ant
The templates currently use CC1 and CC1 for dynamics on the legato patches. The portamento that is triggered by velocity could be controlled using the velocity lane in Play mode, but you can’t currently trigger it from an expression map. There is an option to control dynamics via note velocity, but we’re using both those options already!
You guys are AWESOME. Thank you so much for doing this. You guys just completed my workflow from Dorico into Cubase. ROCK ON!!!!
Hi
I’m a new Dorico user. I just installed Dorico Elements and I’m trying to run the BBCSO Core Template. Problem is that this template is the full Orchestra, and Dorico Elements is limited to 12 intruments. So when I opens the template, I’m unable to edit the template, to keep just 12 instruments, or make a string only project for example. The session is read-only. Am I doing something wrong? I’d like to use the expression maps in this template to build custom projects with BBCSO Core. Is it possible?
Thanks in advance
If you use the playback template (instead of the Dorico file) you can write a score with up to 12 instruments (in Dorico Elements) and then have Dorico just load (using the playback template) the instruments you need instead of using the Dorico file.
Hello John & Dorico team,
thank you so much for providing these, I’m so happy I don’t have to create all the EMs by hand! Some tiny things I noticed, though: Funnily, the Contrabassoon is in the wrong place (after Cor Anglais instead of after the Bassoons). Also, the Celeste uses CC1 + CC11 for dynamics, while it should probably better use velocity. Besides that – great job, and again: Thanks for making these!
This is fantastic – thanks for putting these together – very tempting now to upgrade from Discover to Core or Pro!
I’m not that experienced with Dorico, and have one issue. Using Violin 1, if I transition from, say, pp long notes arco directly to fff spiccato (the fff and staccato attached to the note). the first of the spiccato notes is lost. CC1 is not ramping up until fractionally after the note is played and since BBCSO uses CC1 (along with velocity) only to affect the initial dynamic of staccato articulations (not continuously, like in long arco articulations) the velocity is high for that first staccato but CC1 is still low when the note sounds, so the entire note is quiet.
Is there any trick / solution / workaround with Dorico? Perhaps making dynamics changes to CC1 fractionally early? In Cubase I guess I could put the two articulations on separate BBCSO instances / tracks with CC1 fully up on the staccato instance, or just edit each transition, but I’d love to be able to use Dorico to write and play back and there’s the potential for a superb workflow with BBCSO… if I can get my dynamics transitions!
Thanks!
Dave
Hello, nice job and very interesting but the only thing I don’t understand is where to find the different keyswitch codes for the other expressions. In the example of the video, there is only C-1 and C # -1 for the flute but for example for the strings what about? Is there a list specific to Spitfire ?. On BBC SO Discover software, I have not found even on the keyboard. . Note that Synchro Player with V.S.L. unlike Spitfire has integrated keyswitches ready for use. Thank you in advance for your help because I’m hesitant to buy BBB SO Pro while in December there is a great -40% offer.
Bonjour, beau travail et très intéressant mais la seule chose que je ne comprends pas c’est où trouver les différents code de keyswitches pour les autres expressions. Dans l’exemple de la vidéo, il y a seulement C-1 et C#-1 pour la flûte mais par exemple pour les cordes qu’en est-il? Y-a-t-il une liste spécifique à Spitfire?. Sur le logiciel BBC SO Discover, je n’ai pas trouvé même sur le clavier. . A noter que Synchro Player avec V.S.L. à la différence de Spitfire a intégré les keyswitches prêt à être utilisés. Merci par avance pour votre aide car j’hésite à acheter BBB SO Pro alors qu’au mois de décembre il y a une super proposition de -40%.
Hello, I also have another question for example on Timpani. Spitfire offers several possibilities of sounds. How in the part I write in Dorico I can make the choice that corresponds to the ten proposed shades. How to write. Thank you.
Bonjour, j’ai aussi une autre question par exemple sur les Timbales. Spitfire propose plusieurs possibilité de sons. Comment dans la partiction que j’écris dans Dorico je peux faire le choix qui correspond aux dix nuances proposées. Comment faire pour écrire. Merci.
Dear you
I just bought the Spitfire SO and fillowed the instructions in the video. But only the brass did load, no other instrument.
So I clicked the optimise and still nothing happens. What shal I do?
I think that was an error on my part – if you were using the Discover template then I’ve fixed that today. Please download the new one above.
Thanks for the great videos and instructions for using the templates. I might be worth mentioning that the core version only works with Dorico Professional version as the number of instruments is limited in non-pro versions.
It would be rather nice if Steinberg could lift their instrument limits in Dorico as they did for Cubase Artist users. Just want to be able to write own scores as a keen amateur and don’t need any other bells and whistles…(pun intended)
If you use the playback template (instead of the Dorico file) you can write a score with up to 12 instruments (in Dorico Elements) and then have Dorico just load (using the playback template) the instruments you need instead of using the Dorico file.
I imagine a year and a half on you’ll never see this, but I have the same issue and don’t understand what you’re saying here. When I load the playback template it’s “read only” which restricts me from editing it to a usable size. Apparently that’s not what you’re suggesting, however
The included ‘score’ file isn’t needed to use the playback template, it was just an example of loading every instrument available from Spitfire. If you import the playback template into Dorico Elements it will then load all the instruments you need in your project instead.
First of all, thanks a lot for working on templates like these ones. Are you planning an update to include the new muted brass realased for BBCSO PRO?
Are there any documentation wher to check how to write certain techniques /effects from DORICO score? (I mean Gliss FX, multitongue -2 dots with an arc works but 3 don’t and maybe is feasible-). That would help a lot…
Thanks in advance for your time!
The muted brass have now been added.
There are some videos on our YouTube channel about adding playing techniques, but you might also want to ask on the Facebook group (facebook.com/groups/dorico) or our forum (Dorico.com/forum) with specific examples as you can upload images and have better conversations there.
Just a note of appreciation for all the troubles you guys take to support Dorico users. Thanks!
Hello! greetings from Rio de Janeiro. Please can you help me? I’m a beginner using Dorico, I was a long time a Finale and later Sibelius user. Today I still use Notion 6 because I use it with Studio One 5 Pro. Without a doubt Dorico 3.5 Pro is the best music editor..very flexible fast with a friendly interface. Congratulations to the Dorico team !! Excellent work!!
I am having 2 problems:
1- When I’m using the Spitfire Discover Template, all the instruments work except the brass section. It appears as VEPro Iconica Brass. Spitfire works with my 2 DAWS (Logic Pro X and Studio One 5 Pro). Configuration problem?
2- When I am using Noteperformer 3 and Spitfire Discover with my M-Audio Keystation 49 Mk3 or Novation Impulse 61, and when I play something, for example a melody between notes, a gap is produced with a “Tsk” noise (For example, D, E tsk, F, tsk) with a short delay between note and note. I use MacBook Air 13 “(mid 2017) with Big Sur with 8 Ram and 250 HD SSD. Any advice?? Thank you!
I’ve just fixed the brass issue in the Discover template, sorry. Down the new version above. For the noise you are getting, is it only when you play on your keyboard, or also when Dorico plays back your music?
Hello there, very helpful and exciting.
Is there a chance you could alternate the template for the Elements version?
Like: violin I, violin II, viola, cello, doublebass, flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horns, trumpets, tenor trombones?
Otherwise the template is read-only.
You can start with any Dorico template or one you create yourself and then apply the BBCSO sounds using the Play > Playback Templates option. The Information file in the PDF download has details on installing the playback template if you haven’t already.
Hello! I have just downloaded and installed the Discover version of the BBC Spitfire, getting a green play button, but I seem unable to make it play back. What should I do to make it work ? Thanks for any suggestion – very happy indeed to work with your excellent programme! Best wishes, Michael Sch
An additional remark: in the VST instruments list on the right hand side of the screen all the instrument names are preceded and followed by 2 exclamation marks, for instance !! BBCSO Piccolo !! This obviously indicates a problem, but which one?
Those exclamation marks mean that Dorico can’t find the player or samples. Have a look in Dorico > Preferences > VST Plug-ins and see if the BBC Symphony Orchestra is in the blocked list, and if so select it and click on the < arrow (not the 'allow all' button. If it's not blocked, does the sample player load when you click on the little 'e' in Play mode? If yes but no samples are loaded then it might be a permissions/security issue e.g. on Mac check in the Mac System Preferences > Security and Privacy settings in the Files and Folders section and make sure that Spitfire Audio can access the volumes. If that doesn’t work, please get in touch by email on discoverdorico@steinberg.de
Hi! I just loaded the Spitfire BBC Pro into Dorico and I’m really excited. I’m playing back one of my compositions and the string marking for col legno is working but what do I need to write so that the playback goes back to normal?
Hi Rick. You can use arco (or nat) which will tell the players as well as Dorico to change technique. You can also hide playing techniques in the Properties panel if you don’t want to see them.
Hi guys, I just dragged and dropped the .dorico_pt files but it seems that the PITCHED PERCUSSION expression maps are missing (all but the TIMPANI). Am I doing anything wrong? Any idea? Thanks in advance! 🙂 (and BTW, any plan for DORICO 4 in the near future?)
Sorry I hadn’t seen your comment before so sorry for the delay. Have you made any progress? The pitched percussion should work, but let me know by email on j.barron at steinberg.de if they aren’t working for you and let me know which version of BBCSO you have.
Hey, Great Template!
I am just missing the suspended Cymbal mapping. With this template it triggers the bass drum instead for me.
Also, is there a way to save mic settings?
Oh and I noticed that brass has expression maps for tenuto, which maps to a sfz articulation which isn’t right. Maybe better to delete the tenuto mapping, since bbcso brass has no samples for it.
HI Michael. Are you using Core or Pro? I think the suspended cymbal might have been mapped in one but not the other. Let me know and I’ll check.
I think you’re possibly right about removing the tenuto – not sure where that came from.
And yes you can save mic positions. In one project if you save it then all the tweaks you’ve made should save, but you can also save the endpoint configurations and therefore have your own version of the playback template with those settings in it. There’s a section of a video here on this: https://youtu.be/EmsdZ_34pS0?t=1255
Hi John et al… I just downloaded the Discover templates, but when I open them it appears it’s trying to load Core instruments and I can’t find an option to switch this. (Discover is working in Logic, FYI). Any good counsel?
Hi Tony – can you email with some details please? (j.barron at steinberg dot de) I’ll check what’s going on. Let me know which instruments are trying to load incorrectly.
Will do, John… many thanks!
Thanks for great work. This template pushed me to buy Dorico.
G’day! Thanks so much for these templates, they are a huge timesaver.
I’ve spent a few days with it now, and am suffering quite a bit of lag/stuttering and audio dropouts on playback.
I know that the BBCSO is quite Ram intensive, but I don’t seem to run into as many issues when running large sessions in a dedicated DAW (Ableton and Reaper). Do you have any suggestions to optimize the settings within Dorico or the Spitfire Plugins?
I have tried to increase the sample load size in Spitfire (loading more samples into the RAM), and that didn’t help too much. I’ve also tried deleting players/instruments that I don’t need (i.e. extra percussion etc.)
System Specs:
Dorico v3.5.10.1045
Big Sur 11.6
Macbook Pro Mid-2014
2.5GHz Quad-core i7
500gb NvMe2 SSD
16gb Ram
Nvidia GT750M 2gb
Running the sample library from an external Samsung T7 SSD. (No issues with this in other DAW’s)
Do you find that a project of the same size in Dorico and another DAW uses about the same amount of RAM in both applications?
Thanks for your reply John, and sorry for my slow one!
Just tested the RAM load between Dorico and Ableton, this is what I found –
Ableton Session – RAM = 14.28GB, 31 threads.
Dorico Session – RAM = 13.15GB, 57 threads (VST Engine) + 259.4mb, 15 threads (Dorico) = 15.74GB and 73 threads
When playing back 4 bars of a big C major chord of crotchets at 120bpm, Dorico suffered from multiple audio dropouts/CPU digital glitchy-ness.
Ableton did not.
I know that there could be many variables at play, so do not expect you to be able to diagnose my issue from this information alone, but if you have any general tips for helping Dorico playback a bit smoother, that would be greatly appreciated.
I really love the BBC SO Templates/Expression Maps – along with the midi functionality of the Play section, these were the deciding factors in making Dorico my go-to composition tool. Thanks Dorico team for the great work 🙂
Hi,
Many thanks for creating the BBSO templates. This saves a lot of work!
I’m currently using Dorico 3.5.12 with BBSO discover and the Discover Template. Everything seems to work with the instruments, but I’m having some issues with the unpitched percussion. For each line of percussion, regardless of which stave I try to write notes to : Bass Drum, Snare Drum, Marching Snare Drum etc. I’m only getting the Bass Drum sample being being triggered. I’ve tried looking within the percussion map and also within the BBCSO player. I’ve noted that each unpitched percussion instrument is assigned to a different white keyboard key, and that within the percussion map, each instrument appears to be assigned a different midi channel.
Is there something simple that I may be missing in order to get Dorico to trigger the correct unpitched percussion for it’s corresponding stave? Could there be an issue?
Many Thanks in Advance!
I have the same issue, any solutions? I’m sure we are just missing something basic here :/
Hi,
Is the BBCSO Pro template compatible with Dorico 4? I ask this question because after dragging the Pro.dorico_pt file, the expressions maps and percussion maps do not appear.
Thanks in advance
I think I found … solved problem !
How did you solve it? Having the same problem with missing expression maps in Dorico 4.
Hi John, can you explain why cc1 and cc11 are linked in the EM ?
I have noticed that that dynamics aren’t taken in account with timpani if you use cc1 as volume controller. I changed it to velocity and it works. Is it a known issue ?
I had Discover and Core templates installed with Dorico 3.5 and they worked fine until I upgraded to 4.0 and to BBCSO Pro. I’ve re-added the Discover, Core and Pro Dorico templates from this page, but they no longer work. Clicking the E symbol in the Inspector does not pop up the Spitfire Player like it should.
Has anyone else seen this issue?
@Lawrence: Are you using an M1-powered Apple silicon Mac? If so, perhaps you need to run Dorico 4 under Rosetta.
I recently upgraded to Dorico 4 and have BBCSO Pro. When I apply the latest template to a small orchestral score it misses out the clarinets and horns! I have been trying to add them manually but the file crashes every time.
Any ideas?
Hi Andy. Are they standard e.g. Bb clarinets and F horns or something else? Feel free to email (discoverdorico at steinberg dot de) if you think there’s still a problem (and sorry for the delay).
Aloha John,
I realize this is an old thread, but I just am giving Discover a try. I downloaded the template but can’t seem to load the “pt” file, so I get sounds out of my shiny new template. Can you tell this old Luddite what he is doing wrong.
Dorico Pro 4
Windows 10
Hi David. Sorry for the delay. In the ‘information’ PDF that is in the zip file there should be some details, but basically if you open a project and go to Play > Playback Templates you can use the import button to import the file.
I recently purchased Dorico 4.3. I had heard about the Templates and have the BBC SO Pro. I went through the video on setting up play templates and using an imported Midi file – saw that my computer ram using the PRO voices hit 97% – I have 32GB of Ram. I closed the project and imported all 3 templates – Discover, Core, and PRO.
I then created a new Orchestral project – went to Play menu and selected Play Templates – and picked the Dorico Discover – hoping the resources would be less; they were. However – when I select any track – there is more than just the voice I selected – I have tried muting unused voice tracks like Keyboard and Guitar – there are sounds like cymbals and trumpet special effects.
Dorico 4.3
Windows 10
RAM 32GB
Templates downloaded today.
Hi Mark. Can you send me the Dorico file that you are having problems with please? Email me on discoverdorico at steinberg de
I have Dorico 4 and BBCSO installed on my Asus Zen Book.
I have loaded up the BBCSO template and have waited for the transport controls to colour in but, having loaded in some notes, I get no playback response even though i can see the cursor scrolling though the music I have entered.
Hi Ian.
Has the loading light in the Spitfire interface stopped flashing? (Details in the PDF file in the zip file you downloaded.)
Hi, thank you for the BBCSO Core template. I am on iMac 32GB Ram and this template is so big that I can’t add 3rd player for Oboe, Clarinet and Bassoon – Dorico 4 just stops playing. Is there a way to make the template lite or I must add RAM to 64 GB?(or buy new Mac)
Greetings from Warsaw-Poland
If you check in the Mac Activity Monitor, is Dorico or the VSTAudioEngine using all your RAM? Are there other applications running at the same time that are also using RAM? I don’t think I’ve seen it use that much – do you have a lot of instruments in your project?
Yes, it seems so, look here:
/Users/admin/Desktop/Zrzut ekranu 2023-06-9 o 20.48.28.png
In fact, in clean BBCSO Core template I could now add these 3rd instruments, but it wasn’t possible during a project of 7 mins music.
(I don’t know if you can see the screenshot).
Thanks
I loaded the BBCSO template written for version 3.0 and above into Dorico 5 and the files freezes solid. This is repeatable.
The Solo Strings are missing in the Pro Template. Why?
The template has to be updated since BBC SO Discover added more instruments including a piano.